The counterside of the negative

I've been complaining for the last few days that the Republicans were succeeding with the "Democrats in Division" story, and specifically using it to divide the Clinton and Obama coalitions, and that the Obama campaign was failing at defense. I was getting angrier as I saw more slights against the Clintons pile up, and I noted some Obama supporters taking offense at various statements by Hillary or Bill Clinton. I was beginning to fear that the divisions in the party might become permanent, dooming Obama's chances, and I didn't understand why the Obama campaign wasn't proactively shutting down the news stories that were popping up.

But after Hillary and Bill Clinton's speeches, and watching the Gallup poll show a dramatic rise for Obama today based on yesterday's post-Hillary results, I've begun to wonder if Hollede was on to something with his The Real Head Fake diary.

Throughout the primary I observed the Obama campaign confound the Clinton campaign with its media management. I had no idea how they did it until some of my Obama supporting friends here told me to read Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. I should have learned that when Obama is doing something that makes no sense to me he is probably putting some of Alinsky's rules into practice.

Alinsky: I start from where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be.

Obama is deeply pragmatic and if anything has a better understanding of how to stage drama than Bill Clinton. He knows as well as the Clintons that the media is implacably hostile to them. That's just how it is. Since there is very little the three of them could do to change that, why not use it? Why not raise the drama of the convention, drop hints from both sides about this hurt feeling and that mis-statement, and use both the media and the Republicans to heighten the tension necessary to any drama?

Rule 11: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.

By the night of Hillary Clinton's speech supporters were deeply committed to their respective sides and the media was in a frenzy of Clinton hatred. We were all playing our roles, perfectly primed for a catharsis in Hillary Clinton's words. They had pushed the negative pretty hard and deep. Hillary Clinton's speech provided a dramatic resolution, confounding the media and the Republicans and giving both her supporters and Obama's supporters a catharsis.

But I think Obama is reaching for more than dramatic resolution. I think he has structured the convention to play out an Hegelian dialectic, the insight that takes Alinsky beyond Machiavelli, his inspiration in Rules for Radicals. Hegel describes the dialectic as a struggle between master and slave, father and son, thesis and antithesis. An Hegelian resolution is a synthesis that transcends master and slave. Hillary and Bill Clinton have presented the thesis and antitheses within the dialectic of the Democratic party, I think Obama plans to present the synthesis tonight.



Display:


*AUFHEBUNG* (2.00 / 1)

Hegel's concept translates to "determinative negation."  Let's hope it's truly determinative.  Very nice diary.  Thanks.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:32:20 PM EST

Re: *AUFHEBUNG* (none / 0)

I think I understand what you mean, having listened to Obama's speech I think it is determinative in the context of the primary and opens up the fight in the general. The general election is a new context, a new dialectic. Obama has taken a strong position against McCain, Bush and the Republicans, and it will be interesting to see how he transforms that debate.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (2.00 / 2)

Wow.  This was a very interesting and insightful analysis.

I'm serious.  This was really good souvarine.  I never thought that I would do this in one of your diaries, but you deserve a rec.


"Can We Build It? Yes We Can!" - Bob the Builder
by Stipes on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:33:59 PM EST

Re: The counterside of the negative (2.00 / 6)

Thanks, but this really came from my tutors here in this campaign: bored now and Shaun Appleby.

Hopefully they will drop in and correct my sophomoric reading of Alinsky, and Obama for that matter.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (2.00 / 2)

Well, by what ever method you came by the creation of this diary, I am impressed.

This was a very interesting read.  It's given me something think about.

Mojo!


"Can We Build It? Yes We Can!" - Bob the Builder
by Stipes on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As I wrote at openleft (2.00 / 1)

the media narrative until Hillary and Bill spoke was Democratic disunity.  This was a damaging story for Obama as it suggested that he wasn't up to managing the party and fed doubts about his experience.

The moment Bill and Hillary spoke the narrative changed, and with it the polls have changed.  This was pretty inevitable, but it provided something that the GOP Convention doesn't have: drama.

Drama is what creates interest and drives television ratings.  As of this moment Obama's bounce is as big as the average convention bounce since '96 - and the polling does not reflect last night.

The opportunity for Obama is huge tonight, it is the opportunity to take a near insurmountable lead.  


by fladem on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:43:29 PM EST

Re: As I wrote at openleft (2.00 / 1)

I hope so. You know I regularly underestimate the power of the narratives Obama constructs. The man has nerves of steel, he takes the risks to pull this stuff off.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:49:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As I wrote at openleft (2.00 / 1)

well, not just the "media" it was bought hook, line and sinker by lots of people right here on this blog. And those types were and some still are, bound and determined to keep it going. And the sad part is they think they are supporting Obama.


by zerosumgame on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very well written (2.00 / 2)

And a credit to this website.  I'll chew on this, thanks.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:06:18 PM EST

nah. (2.00 / 3)

but recced anyway for insightful diary.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:06:22 PM EST

Re: nah. (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for the rec.

Nah they didn't use the division, or nah the rest of my diary is mumbo jumbo? Or both?


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:13:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I won't assume to speak for CG (2.00 / 3)

but it seems like a good spot to say this bit:

I don't think the division was manufactured at all, but it won't surprise me if I were to find out it was played expertly.

Wise actions are usually making the best of the situation at hand.  Rarely (if ever) does anyone get to choose the perfect parameters, but successful folks make great lemonaide...


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't assume to speak for CG (none / 0)

No, the division is/was real. I don't know how Bill, Hillary, Barack and Michelle feel, but I couldn't blame them if they were each a little pissed with the others. The press isn't blind, and the Republicans don't make something out of nothing, there was real division within the Democratic party. I think I was mistaken to think that Obama was ignoring it. I think he saw what he had and, again following Alinsky and Machiavelli, he used it.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't assume to speak for CG (none / 0)

I think any division was among the supporters, not among the players.

The fact that the MSM worked feverishly to twist every spoken word into some sort of torpedo showed in the often halting answers given by all to framed questions.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah, that sounds accurate (none / 0)

I wouldn't be surprised if Bill was smartin' -- but he's a professional too! Not the type to hold grudges for months, even if I'm sure his own actions weigh on him greatly.


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:33:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you can't fix something today (none / 0)

you do what you can so it can be fixed tomorrow.

Getting scalded by folks along the way is often just the price you pay.  The most honorable actions are not infrequently those that you know you are not going to be praised for.


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what chris said... (2.00 / 2)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what chris said... (none / 0)

I agree, it's like that fabled 'race card', it was never played, but it wound up on the table by default, dealt by the MSM, and the players were left to make the best of it.  Obama's team worked that to their advantage, points for their shrewdness.  Still, I didn't have to like it.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:04:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what chris said... (none / 0)

I doubt anyone liked it (except the Republicans). It can't have been fun for any of the key players, and it's sure made things tense around here at times.

I would argue that Obama's team worked it to everyone's advantage. Both Clintons have come off extremely well over the last few days. Just look at the recs, mojo, and positive comments in the diaries for their speeches -- a lot of those comments would never have been made, were there not the drama.

The downside was a brief run of Republican attacks, probably a few feelings bruised that might not have been otherwise, and a lot of people having a pretty nervous few days. But the upside is much higher convention viewership, much more catharsis, more unity, and a ton of media coverage.

Had we gone into the convention with a feeling of little drama and relative unity, I doubt the results would have been nearly as good. Fairly high risk, very high reward.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (2.00 / 1)

Nice diary souvarine....Very thought provoking...Recd...


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:11:18 PM EST

Recced! (2.00 / 3)

God, this is fun!

I dunno, but as this has all unfolded I keep thinking (and commenting) that maybe - just maybe! - these folks are at least as smart as we are....

Who knows?  Maybe just a tad smarter...

:~)

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:27:24 PM EST

Re: Recced! (2.00 / 1)

I've never had any doubt that Obama, the Clintons, and most of the people who reach that level of politics are smarter than I am. But being smart doesn't make a person right.

I'll grant you, though, that Obama has been right more consistently than I have in this campaign. He makes this a very interesting campaign to follow.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True, my use of "Smart" is shorthand (none / 0)

Being smart (high IQ) only lets some people be  wrong in really interestingly ways.  More often than not, imho.

I mean "smart" in the functional context, perhaps better said as "nobody's fool".


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Recced! (none / 0)

ALSO REC'd!

Hey Chris ol'PAL!

BTW . . . Alegre is NOT voting for McCain(no-vote). http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/showDi ary.do?diaryId=836


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey man! (none / 0)

Wonders may not cease to not cease!

Enjoying the show?


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:50:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey man! (none / 0)

Watching on my HD, and waiting for Dawn to send an update from the press box!


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey man! (none / 0)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dawn-teo/l ive-from-invesco-field_b_122216.html

3:16 PM
Just arrived at the bloggers area and plugged in. Took us about 30 minutes to go straight up 4 floors. Bloggers area is in the press box. First of all, one of the elevators is "reserved" and another elevator has been roped off for a private Dem Convention Committee Party (they roped off the party just in front of the elevators instead of behind them and wouldnt let us just get on the elevator).

That's right, there she is!


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:55:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (none / 0)

Thought provoking.  I'm supporting Obama, most likely will now place a bumper sticker on my truck (the ultimate test of support for a middle aged gay redneck white guy, our trucks are our id).  I'd prefer one that says 'Obama / Biden / Hillary'.

The downside of all that is the absolute slimy way folks treated the Clintons in order to be able to "break through the counterside".  Having our own folks disrespect Bill as they did in order to achieve any goal was just too much IMHO.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:31:33 PM EST

I agree (2.00 / 1)

I've been uneasy with the way Obama is able to manipulate the media (and the masses) since day 1. It makes me very uncomfortable.

Now that I am on his side, I see that this ability is a good thing to defeat the GOP... but I will continue to be wary about that type of message manipulation and control with him as President.

It did go too far at many points, in my opinion.

I like your signature line. Personally I'm not looking for ONE leader, I just want a strong, courageous, competent Democratic Administration to empower ALL of our Democratic leaders.


"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008
by twinmom on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree (none / 0)

I think every politician, to some degree, becomes 'the driven' rather than 'the driver', being manipulated (as in Bush, Reagan) or packaged (as in Obama, Clinton, Gore) by the cadre of professional political hacks they surround themselves with.

I don't blame Obama.  I blame his team who saw an opening created by the netroots dislike of the Clintons and exploited by the MSM and thought 'hey, why not?' and went for it, destruction of good Democrats be damned.

I can actually believe and 'buy into' Obama's personal 'change' message, I just hope we can provide him enough of a base to deliver that change.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

here's to the base! (none / 0)

the only reason I voted for the man!

(and yeah, I'm the reason you've got that sig... for all my kvetchin' about Bill -- you haven't heard me talk about Obama for a while... ;-) And a friend of mine compares Biden to Nixon -- smart and evil.)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (2.00 / 1)

I think Obama did what he had to do to win the primary. I don't like it but I can understand it.

I thought Obama had to address the feelings that you, me and a lot of other Democrats had to resolve them. But Hillary Clinton's speech and move to push Obama over the top on the floor during the roll call changed my feelings, and if the polls are any guide changed a lot of people's feelings. It appeared to change a lot of Obama supporters feelings about Clinton as well. We will see what Obama has to say, but I think it is hard, after speeches from the Clintons, Biden and others, to maintain that Obama is running from Clinton's record.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Incredible Insight. (none / 0)

I don't know if you are right, but it is very insightful regardless. Thank you for this read. Deeply appreciated and highly recc'd


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:45:19 PM EST

Re: The counterside of the negative (none / 0)

I'm going to have to read up on Alinsky.


by rfahey22 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 09:48:50 PM EST

Re: The counterside of the negative (none / 0)

Isn't this the same guy Hillary wrote that 'hidden' thesis about?  You know the one the GOP made such a big deal about?

If so, how come she didn't know and use the same tactics?


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because she mainly critiqued the Alinsky methods.. (2.00 / 2)

although she defended Saul Alinsky vigorously in her thesis. She didn't agree that one had to work outside of a system in order to change it...

GOP made a big deal out of it, because the Clintons made the thesis inaccessible from Wellesley and that fed wild rumor rightwing hate mongering of "secret Communist HRC in the White House..."


by louisprandtl on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because she mainly critiqued the Alinsky (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, Bill, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are very familiar with Alinsky. Alinsky tried to hire Hillary out of college.

When you get down to it Obama doesn't think you have to work outside of the system to change it.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's more than that... (none / 0)

barack doesn't believe that real change can occur outside the system; iow, it can't be imposed upon the system peacefully.

that's why he got into politics, because he saw that the only way to bring about the change he desired was through a role in government (first, mayor, then governor, then president).  yet even when he came to that realization, he still believed in the inside-outside strategy, that change may come from within the system, but only as a response to pressure from outside it.  that's why he's been dedicated to empowering people, so that they can act as the impetus for change, even as he is the vehicle for it...


"vision for change comes first and foremost...from me." -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 09:55:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (2.00 / 1)

Hm...  That's very interesting.


by rfahey22 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:12:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

they both wrote a thesis on the same guy (none / 0)

part of the reason it would be so neat to read them both side by side.


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:43:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you ever can get hold of HRC's thesis at (2.00 / 1)

Wellesley, let me know..
"There Is Only The Fight...": An Analysis of the Alinsky Model.

Congrats on the great diary.. I didn't think somebody here would be quoting dialectical materialism..but then I'm never surprised...


by louisprandtl on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:05:24 PM EST

Re: The counterside of the negative (none / 0)

Michelle just now: "we got into this discussion of the world as it is and the world as it should be."


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 10:07:37 PM EST

synthesis (2.00 / 3)

I'm a political hack, and I'm a sucker for this stuff. Maybe I just haven't been listening, but I think for the first time Obama just took all the best lines from everyone in this campaign, owned Bill Clinton's legacy and proudly declared himself a Democrat. I did not hear the "transformation" rhetoric, but I did hear Obama as a 21st century Bill Clinton complete with laundry list. I've been concerned that Obama would run on libertarian paternalism, but I heard him rejecting purely market based solutions.

I heard Obama putting himself forward as the synthesis of black and white, the next step toward Martin Luther King's dream.


by souvarine on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:00:48 PM EST

Re: synthesis (none / 0)

Yes, and he was finally able to make that shift because Hillary and Bill were finally fully and unequivocally onboard. (In the media's eye, I mean. Most likely, they have been onboard since shortly after she dropped out of the race, and just waiting for the chance to prove it.)


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 04:54:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (none / 0)

Excellent Diary, Souvarine.

You nailed my feelings tonight.

Rec'd


On Nov 4th, we elected "the smart guy" and the world celebrated!
by WashStateBlue on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:11:33 PM EST

Souvarine, you impressed me. (none / 0)

Recced.

Let me add, I'm wondering something similar, if this hasn't all worked out for the best.  Certainly, after watching all the pundits gushing (even Bill Krystol on Fox!) about Obama's speech, I'm inclined to think this convention may have worked out better than the apocalypse I was expecting.

For me, Obama's speech was first-half boring, second-half excellent.  The part about economics was well meant but stale.  The part about foreign policy was more feisty.

One thing I would suggest to Obama: Learn to say George W. Bush's name.  It's not GeorgedoubleyouBush.  It's George..  DOUBLE You... Bush.  It should have the same rhythm as George Fucking Bush, but with Double You instead of Fucking.  And the B in Bush should spray spittle and blow out candles.  It certainly does when I say it.


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:33:48 PM EST

Wow. Incredibly interesting (none / 0)

Recommended.

But if you are right, and this was actually planned, that would cast a completely different light on the Obama campaign during the last 3 months.  It would suggest everything we have seen and heard might not be actually as it seemed, as a set up for this convention. All the while, state by state organizations are created.

Frankly, it's too mind numbing to even consider.  It would be playing political chess on a level that I can't imagine.


by zmus on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:10:57 AM EST

Re: Wow. Incredibly interesting (none / 0)

I don't think it's that complicated. Conventions are the one venue where the nominee has near total control, Obama knew that he had to unify the party after the primary but he did not have to do it in the conventional way. Bill and Hillary Clinton are as aware of how the game is played as Obama is, and they are consummate professionals who are perfectly capable of playing the roles he assigns to them in the service of winning the election.

It is usually wise to assume there is more going on than what the media presents. In most cases pundits and reporters are following the story lines pitched to them by the campaigns. Smart campaigns figure out how to subvert their opponent's narrative.


by souvarine on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah, and I figure the word was (none / 0)

"grump all you want until the convention. then get onboard!"

(venting is healthy. much better than standing on chairs and screaming!)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:46:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The counterside of the negative (none / 0)

this is brilliant.  'nough said.


by bluedavid on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 12:38:44 AM EST

One question (none / 0)

Hegelian dia-whatnow?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 04:57:03 AM EST

Re: One question (none / 0)

Explain in small words, as you would to a child. Or an engineer.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 04:57:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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